Ep. 82 - How Sobriety Changes Your Relationships, Dating Life & Connection with Joel Monteleone

Ep. 82: How Sobriety Changes Your Relationships, Dating Life & Connection with Joel Monteleone

Meet Joel Monteleone: Dating and Relationships Coach

Lindsay: Welcome, Joel, to the podcast today. Let's keep things pretty straightforward in the beginning. I've already given my audience a little info about you, but why don't you tell us who you are and what you do?

Joel: Yeah, so I'm a dating and relationships coach here in Austin, Texas. I work primarily with high-achieving women who have succeeded in all parts of their life and they're ready to now find someone to share that life with. I host a podcast called Hotter Together, and I interview couples who are successful in their relationships and in business and in their lives. I interview them around how their relationship has been that growth engine to their success. And the last thing I do is some live events here called Hot Takes, Hot Dates, which is more like a live dating event. So yeah, I do a lot of stuff, but it all revolves around getting people in relationships.

Lindsay: I love it. And is there also some element of your work around people in current relationships too, which I think we're gonna talk a little bit about today?

Joel: Yeah, totally. My goal is that people are living in the relationship of their dreams, right? My goal is to have people in relationships, not have them out of it. And so I've had many clients come to me who are in a relationship that is not the one of their dreams. And I don't recommend them to just leave. I coach them in, how can we figure this out? How can we make this work? What's not working? Because I think that relationships are challenging and they take work. And unless an individual has truly exhausted every possibility, there's still more that they can create within the relationship that they're in.

Lindsay: Totally. Oh my gosh. Literally every time I hear you talk or watch some of your content, I'm even more excited about what you have to say, because so much of the work that I do with women through their sober journey is very related to finding their voice in their relationship. Which sometimes leads to making a decision like, I've actually been drinking to tolerate my relationship, and now I have to figure out what needs to change, how I need to change, what my expectations are of my partner. Everything changes. And so you also are alcohol free.

Joel: Yes. I've been alcohol free, technically sober, since November 18, 2022, I believe is the date. So about four years.

Lindsay: Yeah, we're coming up on four years. And I know you've told me that sometimes you find sober life boring, but that's not what we're here to talk about today.

Joel: So boring. I was just on another podcast literally right before this, and I was talking about how there are moments where I'm like, gosh, it would be so much more fun if I took like three tequila shots right now. I know I probably shouldn't say that, but there are moments.

Lindsay: Stop. No, I think there are parts of the journey that feel that way, because like I always say, I love the version of me who drank. She was so fun, she had a lot of fun, but eventually it just wasn't fun anymore. And so I'm ready to retire her, and that's the end of that.

How Quitting Drinking Changed Joel's Dating Life and Relationships

Lindsay: But on the same note of your sobriety, choosing sobriety gave you more energy, clarity, and, to what you do today, more connection. So tell me how removing alcohol changed the way you showed up in dating, or just in your relationships.

Joel: Yeah, I always say that if I was still drinking, I could not have anything that I have now. Mainly because I just spent so much energy partying and drinking, and I didn't really have any more space for anything else. So once I removed the activity that I spent ninety-plus percent of my time and energy on, there was a vacuum for so much more.

And I replaced it with things that I enjoyed doing, which was dancing or volleyball, working out, and then inevitably business and coaching and events. What I learned when I removed alcohol was, oh my gosh, I have a lot of energy to do a lot of things. I have the capacity to do a lot of things.

And so it allowed me to show up differently in my own life, with my own work, with my finances, and then inevitably how I show up in dating with people. It looks a lot different than it did four-plus years ago when I go out dating. Luckily, Austin is a very wellness-forward city, so there are a lot of people that aren't drinking. But I do feel like that's available to everyone in every city. You just gotta be willing to look for it.

Finding an Alcohol-Free Community, Even in a Party City

Joel: There's plenty of people in Austin who have no idea that there's an alcohol-free community here, because they're so focused on Austin being a party city, which it is. There's a college campus, there's tons of places to go out. And if that's what you see all the time, you actually don't even know other parts of Austin exist. So once I let myself release the alcohol, my whole world kind of changed, because I started to discover new areas, new communities, new people that I truly didn't even know existed. They weren't even in what I believed to be true about the world.

Lindsay: This is very, very relatable, because when you're a drinker, so much of what you do revolves around drinking. Even coming home after work, the way you close out your day. And so when you're in the beginning of thinking, gosh, I need to change this part of my life, we don't even know what that looks like. And then you really do realize, A, I've become available to so much more, just capacity-wise and in general. Like, huh, this is what people are doing on the weekends? People do other things besides go to breweries on Saturdays? I had no idea. It really does totally open up your whole mind.

Joel: Yeah, I would look back on the kind of worldview that I had back then, not knowing that it could be different. I remember going to clubs or these really popular streets here in Austin and looking out, and there'd be thousands of people partying. And I remember thinking, there's no way anyone is not here. Everyone in Austin who is of drinking, partying age, twenty-one to thirty, they're all here. There's no way they're anywhere else. And then when I stopped drinking and I started to discover new things, I was like, oh my God, there's people not on Rainey Street on a Friday night. This was mind-blowing to me.

But it requires seeing the world a little bit differently and giving yourself the permission to look at things a little differently. And I see parallels in dating as well, where it's a very common thing to go meet people at bars. When you continue to have that habit, you start to think that bars are the only place that exists for you to meet people, and that's the only type of people that are available to you. But then you start to realize, actually, there's a whole world out there that's not this bar, and men and women that are not at these bars that you just don't even know exist right now.

Going Out Without Drinking

Lindsay: Right. They're doing different things. And I also want people to feel like you can still go out. I go out for drinks all the time, and I'm the one drinking non-alcoholic drinks. If my friends are like, we're gonna go out, I'm like, I will see you there. The difference is I'm not there all night anymore. And I don't spend a hundred dollars. I get one or two non-alcoholic beers and I'm like, peace out, and I have the rest of my night and a good night's rest ahead of me. Still do the thing, just don't drink alcohol.

Joel: Yeah, I love going to bars. I love going out. So much so that I have a hard time finding people to go out with me, because I have people who are also health-focused or whatever. But yeah, I love the energy of the nightlife. You just gotta be able to be in that environment and understand what comes with the drinking. You're not only just drinking this. There's the morning after, there's the hangover, there's the anxiety, there's the poor choices. And so once you start to realize that there's so much more you're putting at risk than just having a drink here, it becomes a bit easier over time.

What You Gain Back When You Stop Drinking

Lindsay: Yeah, and all of those things that you just listed are the things that kept you from everything you have today. Just like me. Everything that we have today is because we quit drinking.

Joel: Yeah. A funny thing is, I used to watch a lot of sports. I used to watch football every Sunday and Thursday and Monday. I would watch sports all the time. And then when I stopped drinking, I realized that I don't even really like watching sports. I just like drinking. And on Sundays I would just be hungover, so I would just watch twelve hours of uninterrupted football on RedZone. And then when I stopped drinking, I'm like, wow, this is not what I would choose to do with my time. And that's a lot of time. That's like twenty hours every week that I gained back just from not watching football.

Lindsay: Literally. The drinking version of me used to spend all day Sunday drinking and watching football at a dive bar, and also buying those ridiculous little pull tickets where I live, where you can win money. It was just such a waste of time. And one of the things that I love about the sober version of me is that my husband and I will still go out to our little dive bar and get our chicken wings and watch one football game. Sometimes we just stay for half the game. And I'll get an NA beer and he'll have his beer, and I have the rest of the day. I spend ninety minutes to maybe three hours doing that, and I don't feel guilty anymore. And it still is fun when it's one game.

Joel: Yeah, I watch sports, I follow sports, I just don't really watch the games that much anymore. And nothing wrong with it. I just think I got a bit more clarity on what I actually spent my time with. If I could choose anything to do on this Sunday, I'm obviously not choosing to watch football.

Lindsay: Exactly. It's taking more control over your life: how do I actually want to be spending my time? Because twenty hours a week on football and drinking also bleeds into Monday and Tuesday's productivity, or just your general capacity. It never ends. Suddenly twenty hours of football has taken over your entire week.

Joel: Yeah, totally. I have lots of friends who love sports, and I always think to myself, wow, if you guys put fifty percent of the time and energy you put into sports into something else, you could be president. You could do anything you want. This is a lot of energy.

Lindsay: I know. And that's how I feel about drinking. I took a hundred percent of my old drinking time, so maybe we'll be president soon.

Joel: I think it's possible. I think I told you this. I used to think about Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000-hour rule. He says if you do anything for 10,000 hours, you're an expert. And I used to walk around proudly, like a badge of honor: I'm an expert partier. I've partied for 10,000 hours. I am so good at this. And then when I stopped drinking, I was like, what was I prioritizing? I truly was proud. I'm like, yeah, I'm never gonna settle down, I'm just gonna party until I'm dead. And then I got punched in the face under a bridge one day, and I realized that it was time for me to make some different decisions.

Lindsay: Hey, you know what? Whatever gets you there.

What Happens to Your Relationship When Alcohol Is Gone?

Lindsay: Okay, let's get back to relationships then. So alcohol is woven into a lot of relationship rituals, like date nights and celebrations, vacations, all those things. A lot of my clients tell me it's how they connect with their husband, at the end of the week or on date night. And another really important thing is avoiding difficult conversations. It can definitely help you sweep things under the rug. So what can happen between two people when alcohol is no longer part of those rituals or moments?

Joel: Yeah, it can be wildly uncomfortable, because alcohol allows us to loosen up, right? To make vulnerability easier. I'm okay sharing this thing because now I don't give a fuck, versus sharing it because this needs to be said. And so when you remove alcohol, it can be uncomfortable and scary, because you're now having conversations you never had before.

Because before, in all these conversations, it was you, your partner, and alcohol was present, which made things easier. It made you share things that you might not have said, or share them in a way you might not have shared them. And so when you remove alcohol, that's true vulnerability, true authenticity. It requires a different way of communicating. It requires you both to show up in a way that is safe. When you have alcohol, you don't really care if it's safe anymore. The safety comes from the alcohol. And so if you remove the alcohol, the safety now needs to come from within you and with your partner.

Lindsay: I love that, and I 100% agree. I also think that alcohol caused so many of the unnecessary problems between my husband and me. I always say one of the reasons why I quit drinking is because I used to be mean to my husband. You put a bottle of wine in me and I'm just a mean bitch. I'm gonna be mean to him about nothing, and then the next day wonder why he's mad at me. And I know that a lot of women listening can relate to that, because they tell me this. So what do you think happens to two people's connection once they're not relying on drinking to be vulnerable, as they start to see or feel that safety with one another again, after the uncomfortable, awkward first couple of months?

Is Alcohol Really How You Connect With Your Partner?

Joel: Yeah, you likely don't love this person because you like getting drunk with them, right? That's just not why you love them. It's not why you're in a relationship with them. And so when you remove the alcohol, there's definitely a fear, a discomfort, even a questioning of, oh my gosh, is this better than it was when I was drinking? I feel tense and anxious, maybe I should just go drink again.

And then there's that moment where you get past that discomfort, and then you are operating in a whole new space. The same thing was true in my life. What became possible when I stopped drinking was more energy, more abundance. I was able to create things that I never thought possible. And that's possible in relationships as well. If you're not spending time and energy and money on going out on a Wednesday night or drinking, you could potentially go to Aruba in a year. Who knows? So much becomes possible. You're not even thinking that way yet. And you start to see your bank account increase a little bit. You start to get more energy. Maybe you've developed some new hobbies, and there's a convention for Pokémon cards that you want to go to, but you never collected Pokémon cards before because you just didn't care. I don't know.

But it's allowing yourself to remove the thing that is causing resistance or causing dissonance in the relationship. And then what comes from that is something really beautiful. And it's different for everybody. For me, I never thought I'd be coaching people in dating and relationships, but that's what God wanted me to do. It's what chose me. It seems like my path. So if there is a belief or a feeling like, hey, alcohol is a problem, or it's preventing me from experiencing something that I want in my life or my relationship, give yourself the permission to go explore what that is. Because if it wasn't meant to be explored, you wouldn't be feeling it. You wouldn't be thinking it.

Lindsay: I love that a lot. Because even though we think that alcohol is how we're connecting with our partner, in my experience it actually just created more distance, because I wasn't prioritizing time. Like you said, you can spend Wednesday nights and all this time going out instead of focusing on your partner, or finding the partner that you want. So alcohol really just places a giant wedge between you and everything you want in relationships.

Joel: Yeah. Is there a possibility that you're connecting with your partner through alcohol? A hundred percent. And so you can feel like, if I remove the alcohol, I'll lose that connection. But that's not true. Both things can be true at once. Sure, you can connect with alcohol, and at the same time you can connect without alcohol. But it's allowing yourself to take the risk, knowing that it's gonna be okay. If you remove the nightly bourbon or whatever it is, you're not gonna lose everything. And if you do lose everything, well, then that's good to know, right? That's good feedback. Then there wasn't much there to begin with.

Lindsay: Yes. We become afraid, because once we have the information and we know the outcome, it's like, well, now I have to do something. Now I have to change. I have to break up with this person. Or, I've been married for many, many years, am I actually realizing now that I shouldn't be in this marriage? Whatever the case is. Once you know, you have to do something with it, and that's terrifying. But I feel like more often than not, it actually brings you closer. And if there is a breakup in the future, there's part of you that already knows that, and you're probably drinking to continue to avoid that outcome.

What You Actually Give Up When You Quit Drinking

Joel: Totally. I don't know about your audience, but for me personally, when I gave up drinking, I didn't really give much up. I gave up hangovers, I gave up really expensive nights out, I gave up Ubers. I gave up drugs. I was gonna be specific about which drugs, but I just felt like I didn't need to be. I gave up late nights. So sure, those are things I gave up. But I didn't give up connection. I gave up some friendships, but I didn't give up having friends. I didn't give up family. I didn't give up health, the big things. Yeah, I lost friendships, people that I was close with then that I'm not that close with now. But that's life.

Lindsay: Yeah. That could have happened anyway.

Why High-Achieving Women Struggle With Control in Relationships

Lindsay: So, okay, I want to bring it back into the work that you do. You work with women very similar to my audience listening today. They're high-achieving women who are used to being very capable problem solvers, independent and in control, doing everything on their own. So how can those qualities help a relationship? And where can they sometimes make vulnerability or connection more difficult?

Joel: Yeah. I work with women who are looking for a relationship, who have been in a relationship and are now single, or who are in a relationship. And the thing I see over and over and over again is a lack of trust. A lack of trust in themselves, a lack of trust in their partner, and a lack of trust in the process. High-achieving women accomplish a lot. They're incredible at doing. They're really good at it, and they like to control the outcomes, because typically when they control the outcomes, the outcomes work out. And in a relationship, you can't really control the outcomes, because there's always somebody else involved. You can try. In some cases you can control them, but that's not really the relationship that you want, right?

So there's gotta be a trust that what you want is gonna work out and it's gonna happen. And in order for you to move forward, sometimes you gotta let go of that control. You gotta surrender, you gotta release, you gotta trust the process, that it's gonna work itself out. I say committed, but unattached. I'm committed to making this relationship exactly what I want it to be, but I'm unattached from the outcome. A lot of the time we're so attached to the outcome, we're attached to it looking a certain way, that when it doesn't look that way, we freak out, we blow it up, we sabotage it, we leave it. And I see that a lot with people who are really good at the doing, especially women who are really good at the doing.

Lindsay: Everything you're saying, I feel like I could hear a bunch of clicks going off in my brain. So much just came together for me. I can remember being in corporate and telling my team, look, we are making decisions based on what happens, so the outcome that we set out for at the beginning of this may not be what we get. Especially when you're in relationships with the uncontrollable variable of another human being. You never know what another human being is going to think, feel, or say. And I love how you said that, that we have to detach ourselves from the outcome. As long as you show up as your genuine, authentic self, then you just have to trust that you've put in your side of things. And really the outcome has nothing to do with you. It just is that the other person isn't it.

Letting Go of Worst-Case Scenario Thinking

Joel: Yeah. We like to believe that we know what the other person's gonna think, feel, or do. We're like, well, I know that if I say this, they're gonna react like this, so I'm gonna say it this way instead. And typically when I'm coaching people, they lay out all the scenarios. But the way that our brain works, we always think it's gonna be the worst-case scenario. So whenever a client talks to me and goes, what if this happens? What if this happens? I go, well, what if everything that you wanted occurred? What if he said exactly what you wanted? And they stop and they're like, I didn't prepare for that one. Because you think you're seeing all the scenarios possible, but you're actually not. You're only seeing the scenarios that you believe are possible. And that's a reflection of what you believe about yourself, and what you deserve and what you're worthy of.

And so when it comes to relationships, what I tell people is, you gotta be authentic, you gotta be vulnerable, you gotta be playful. And as long as your intention is always love, there's nothing wrong. If your intention is malice or negativity, or you wanna hurt somebody, sure, that's not gonna work. But as a society, we are addicted to comfort. Anything that's uncomfortable is wrong or bad or avoided. And a lot of the time in relationships, the experiences and conversations that need to happen are uncomfortable. It can be uncomfortable to give someone that you love feedback about how the way they're showing up isn't working for you in the relationship.

And so people shy away from it, and they don't give the feedback. And then eventually it gets to a point where they can no longer stand it. They blow up, and the other person goes, well, why didn't you just tell me that six months ago? So as long as you're allowing yourself to show up and get uncomfortable, be authentic, be vulnerable, be honest, the rest of it's gonna work out.

Does Your Partner Really Know What You Need?

Joel: A lot of the time when I see people who are in a relationship, they tell me all these things that aren't working. And I'm like, well, does the other person know that that doesn't work for you? Are they clear? Do they know that they need to make decisions, and they're actively not making those decisions? And a lot of the time it's like, no, but they should know. It should be obvious to them. How do they not know? Well, they don't know. They just don't. Because if they knew, they would do it differently. If they truly loved you and they knew that this thing they're doing is driving you up the walls, then they would actively try to change it.

Lindsay: 100%. I have so much to say about what you just said. I also believe that, particularly with people who we've lived with for a long time, we have to say it more than once that it's important to us. Oftentimes when I'm talking with my clients, I'll say, well, does your husband or your partner know that you really want to do something about your drinking, that you want to quit drinking? And often I get, yeah, he knows. I complain about it. I've said this.

And I'm like, how long ago? And what was the context? Was it because you got home from a girls' weekend and you were really hungover? Because he's gonna write that off as, yeah, she just had a bender, she had a fun weekend and now she's regretting it. Or are you talking to him at the end of the week, on a Friday night, when he's offering you a glass of wine, and you actually say, I have to change how I respond to the stress of my work week, I cannot have a glass of wine? Does he really know the seriousness? I love how you said that. We have to be open and share, and there is vulnerability to that. But they're never gonna know how to support you and be a real partner if they don't know what you're thinking and what you need.

Joel: Totally, one hundred percent. There are moments where we think we're communicating something, but it's not clear. Even your intention, or how you say things. If I said, I shouldn't have another drink, I can say that a hundred different ways and mean it a hundred different ways. "I shouldn't have another drink," flirty and cute, or, "I should not have another drink," like something bad's gonna happen. Sometimes your ways of being can communicate that. But a lot of the time, especially in a relationship, you gotta be clear. And as a partner, you gotta make sure you're understanding what they're saying. A lot of the time with my clients, I say, hey, what I'm hearing you say is this. Because I wanna make sure that I'm actually understanding what you mean.

Because if I'm just assuming that I understand it, but I'm actually not understanding you, then we're on different pages. We're not in alignment, we're not seeing eye to eye. So I think it's really important, as you communicate these things, to make sure that you are hearing each other. Hey, what I'm hearing you say is this. Is that correct, or am I completely off base?

Lindsay: I love this. My husband does this to me all the time. He has all of the interpersonal communication tactics down on lock. Sometimes I'm like, did you read that in a book? What are you doing over there? I feel called out right now.

Joel: Well, maybe he did. There's nothing wrong with that. Good for him. He cares.

Why Love and Sobriety Both Require Discomfort and Trust

Lindsay: No, it's welcome. And I think the other really important thing that you said, and I love it so much, is that we have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Success with literally anything requires discomfort. It really does. Whether that's continuing to not drink anymore or moving through your sobriety journey, your success in not drinking is directly tied to your willingness to be uncomfortable. And I think that's applicable everywhere. You and I, we are self-employed, we are entrepreneurs, we are uncomfortable every day. We are so good at it. And there's a level of discomfort in any relationship that you have that's going to be long term. Just because something is good and comfortable now, a year from now it might not be. Or twenty-five years from now. There's going to be discomfort along the way.

Joel: Yeah, getting comfortable in the discomfort is dependent on trust, right? As an entrepreneur, as a business owner, you continue to move forward because you trust that it's gonna work out. No matter how hard it is or what's happening, you're like, I trust myself, I trust the business, I trust my strategy. It's not working right now, but I trust that it's going to work out.

And the same is true in relationships. I trust that if I say this thing or I desire this thing, my partner is not going to leave me, or it's not gonna end up bad. And so when you have that safety, you have that trust, then you're able to actually be yourself. If you're afraid and you're operating from a place of, if I say this, if I act this way, then my partner's gonna leave, then yeah, for sure you're not gonna fucking say it or act that way. I see why you're not.

And the same with drinking. If I don't trust that life is gonna get better, I don't trust that my friends are gonna accept me, whatever it is, then yeah, you're more comfortable doing the drinking, because you're trusting that if this is as bad as it gets, well, it's not that bad. I don't trust that it could get better. Maybe it could get worse. And so you gotta trust yourself. That's the number one thing. Love and sobriety is just trust, at least for me.

Lindsay: Yeah, and everything you're saying really comes back down to that worst-case scenario building. We're always looking for the worst-case scenario, and we think about it so much that then we truly believe that is the only outcome that's going to happen, and then we do nothing.

Joel: I see it all the time with my clients. They tell me, well, what if I say this to him and then he blows up and leaves me? And I respond, well, is that who he is? Is that the kind of guy that you think he is, that you're gonna say this thing that's not that big of a deal and he's gonna blow up and leave you? And she's like, well, no. And I go, well, then what are we worried about? If he truly is that man, then one, why are you in a relationship with him? That's poor judgment on your part. And then two, if he's gonna respond that way, we should probably know now rather than later. And three, chances are he's not that guy. He's not the worst guy to ever live. Let's be real here.

How to Quit Drinking When Your Partner Still Drinks

Lindsay: Right. I love it. So what do you think about when women want to stop drinking, or they're trying to stop drinking, but their partner is still drinking? How can a couple navigate that change without the other person maybe feeling judged, and figure out how they can support each other? A lot of the women listening today want to change their relationship with alcohol, but their husband drinks. And by the way, my husband still drinks. I don't care and it's fine, but I know that everybody's relationship is different.

Joel: Yeah, I think it's a conversation. Truly finding out, hey, how important is it to you that I drink, because it's not working for me. And again, it goes back to being vulnerable and actually saying why it's not working for you. If you dilute it, then it's not really gonna make sense to your partner. If you say, well, I don't want to drink because I don't really feel great on Saturday mornings, then he's gonna try and figure out a solution. He'll be like, okay, well then we just won't drink on Friday nights, or we'll just have one. Well, if that's not the real reason, you gotta be real. You gotta be honest. You gotta be fully vulnerable and share what the reasons are. Because if you dilute yourself, it's not gonna make sense. They're gonna try and find a solution, and then you're gonna think they're not listening to you. So you gotta be really honest. Because truly, if the person loves you, they want to have an opportunity to support you. That is love. And so you're giving them that opportunity to love you.

Lindsay: You have just explained this in the best way. You can't dilute its importance, because they're just gonna find a solution. And I love this so much, because the high-achieving woman is sitting here thinking, I've already thought of all of the solutions. Really? We just won't drink Friday night? Thanks. I've never fucking thought of that before, asshole. That's what I would think about my husband, and then say it a little nicer. Or, just have one. Like I haven't been trying to do that for the last five years. Oh my gosh, I wish I would have thought of that.

And you're so right. That was the big turning point in my own journey, when I just became completely honest with my husband. I think the first thing that I told him, around letting him in, was, look, this isn't me waking up on a Saturday mad because I drank two bottles of wine last night. You don't understand that every single day at three o'clock, I'm literally counting down the clock to be able to come home and have a glass of wine. You don't understand how much I'm thinking about it. You don't understand that when I wake up in the morning, I tell myself that I'm not gonna drink that day, and by five o'clock I'm driving home as fast as I can so that I can pour a glass of wine.

And once he heard that, he was like, now this is a different conversation. Now I get it. This isn't about you not drinking on weeknights anymore. You're so right, Joel. I really love how you said this, and I'm happy for my audience to hear this from a man's point of view, first of all, and just in general from another voice.

Asking for Support Gives People the Opportunity to Love You

Joel: Yeah, I think that when you're in a relationship, and I say this to anyone, when you ask for support, you give people an opportunity to love you. And so when you don't ask for support, you're robbing them of that opportunity. So if you need support, ask for it, because you have so many people who are waiting for that opportunity to love you, especially your partner.

Lindsay: That is one of the most beautiful things I think I've ever heard a guest say on this podcast, period. That's the top thing I've heard this year. I love it.

What It's Like to Work With a Dating and Relationships Coach

Lindsay: I want to know, if somebody listening is like, oh my gosh, I want to continue my sober journey and I want to start dating, or I want to navigate my relationship with my husband or partner in this way, what would it look and feel like to work with you? What would they experience in the first couple of weeks?

Joel: Yeah. When I start with my clients, we get very clear on what they want. And I think the same is true with drinking. We know all the things we don't want. I don't wanna be hungover, I don't wanna feel like shit, I don't want to spend all this money on drinking, I don't want to be bloated, I don't wanna gain weight. Okay, well, what do you want? And they pause and go, well, I haven't really thought much about that. Yeah, of course.

And the same is true in relationships. Well, I don't want this in my relationship. I don't want that type of guy. And we don't really think about what we do want, because we're so focused on all the things that we don't. So in the first few weeks, we get very clear on creating your vision. Why are you even here? What do you want to create in your relationship? Because a lot of the time, when it comes to manifestation, to attracting the things that you want, if you're not clear on what you want to call in, you're not gonna get it.

I have so many women that I work with who show me, hey, I went on a date with this guy, and I look at him and I go, this isn't anything like what you told me you want. This guy doesn't want a relationship. What are we doing here? And then they'll say, well, I just wanted to see what happened. Maybe I was wrong. And it's like, yeah, possibly. But you weren't wrong. And now you're giving energy to a person and to an experience that you know is not right for you. You're not trusting yourself, you're not trusting your intuition, and therefore you're signaling to the universe that you actually don't know what you want. So it's probably gonna send you more of these types of guys, because that's how you're spending your time. That's what you're choosing, rather than eliminating things that you know are not serving you, like alcohol or whatever, and then focusing on the things that are.

I always say to my clients, that guy that you gave time to, that you knew wasn't right for you but he was attractive or whatever, there was potentially a guy that was right for you right across the restaurant or the bar that you just didn't see. Because you're so focused on these specific types of guys, that's all your brain is looking for and collecting evidence for, and you're not actually seeing the other men that might be right for you. There's lots of men out there. There's lots of ways to build a relationship. But if we only see it one way, if we only see the worst-case scenario, then that's what we're gonna continue to attract.

"There Are No Good Men in My City": Changing the Stories You Tell Yourself About Dating

Lindsay: Yes. Exactly. That worst-case scenario building that high-achieving women do. What do you say to the woman who has told herself these stories? I have a few clients who are single, and one of the things I hear is, there's no men in this city, or men are blank. They've told themselves a story as to why they can't be on a dating app, or shouldn't be.

Joel: I say they're right. Whatever they believe, they're right. They want to be right. So great, you're right. Your city is impossible to date in. All the men are Peter Pans or don't want to be in a relationship. Great, you're right. Okay, now what? Is that getting you closer to or further away from the relationship that you want? If you believe that you're in a city where no one wants to date, but you're still in that city, now we're just hoping we're gonna hit the lottery. And it's not gonna happen.

I was just talking to someone on Instagram, and she was telling me how men don't like her because she's too successful, and the men that are successful are gonna compete with her and want a prenup. And I go, okay, so now the men are either intimidated by your success or the men are competing with your success. Those are the only two options we're existing in. And I was saying, hey, if you want a relationship, that's not gonna create one for you. Because you're only gonna see men in two ways: either successful dickheads or unsuccessful pussies. What are we doing here?

So whenever someone tells me that a city's hard to date in, I look at them and go, okay, so what you're saying to me right now is that there's nobody in your city that's dating. No one in your city is building a relationship. No one at all. Is that what you believe? And they're like, no, well, I mean, some people. Well then, if it's possible for some people, it's possible for you. That's the thing I say to most people. What are we even doing here? Because we will convince ourselves, and we'll continue to find evidence. We'll find ourselves in this psycho-cybernetic loop where we keep reinforcing these beliefs that are not serving us. And it requires us to take a look at those beliefs and say, hey, is this true or is this not?

Even if there were stats saying 80% of the men in Austin, Texas can't find a girlfriend, I wouldn't say, wow, that's really tough for me. I would look at that and go, okay, well, those guys aren't me. They don't have my experience. Their lives and my life can't be compared. So it's really removing yourself from this collective narrative that dating is XYZ, and getting very clear on what you want. What do you want to create? Just like you created all the success in your life, you can create a relationship too. It just requires trust and commitment, really.

Lindsay: Yeah, I love it. And it's not like I created this, but as they say, you get what you think. So if you're not getting what you want, then you need to take a good look at what you think about and challenge it. Just because I think this does not mean it's true. It's just that I've thought it for so long that I need more information to change the way I'm thinking.

Joel: Totally. Just from a logical perspective, if you walk around your city and you think all guys are whatever, then every date you go on, this man now has to convince you that he is not that.

Lindsay: And he doesn't even know what that is.

Joel: Exactly, he doesn't even know what he's convincing you of. But you're already seeing this guy through a lens of, this guy's a douchebag or whatever. So no matter what he does, he's either unknowingly trying to convince you he's not a douchebag, or if he does one thing that could be considered douchebaggery, you're like, see, confirmed, he's a douchebag. He's playing an unwinnable game right now.

I hear stories from the women that I work with, or friends of mine, like, can you believe this guy did this? And they're really basic things. One was, on his app he wears a hat. There's this thing called hat fishing, where they wear a hat on their profile, and then in real life their hairline's receding. Can you believe he was hat fishing me? And I go, what do you want this guy to do? He's losing his hair. He looks good with a hat on. If he took his hat off, you wouldn't go on a date with him. If you want to be in a relationship, the quality of your relationship is not based on the quality of a guy's hairline. That's a pretty good line right there. But it's really getting clear on what you want.

Lindsay: I also just learned a new term, hat fishing. This needs to be a show, obviously. That's ridiculous.

Joel: Like catfishing, yeah. There's a lot of terms in dating, like situationships. That's like the biggest thing in the world, and it didn't exist like six years ago. We're just making shit up these days to give us reasons why dating is hard. We'll do anything we can rather than take personal responsibility.

Lindsay: It's so true. And if you continue to say or think dating's hard, then it's going to continue to be hard. We get what we think and say. I love it.

Be Your Authentic Self in Dating and Relationships

Lindsay: So to put a bow on it, your work helps women trust themselves so that they get the opportunity to be loved and supported in the right relationship, whether that's your current relationship or you're looking for one. And it's been so nice to have you on today as a guest. Oh my God, this was seriously so much fun. I really hope that you continue to spread this work, because you clearly were meant for it.

If I was not married, I would definitely be working with you to start dating again, because I can think of all of the things that I used to think between when I was divorced and the few years before I remarried. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I should have hired somebody like Joel, because I would have been so much more confident in myself, and it probably wouldn't have taken me so long to find my now husband.

And the other thing I'm really hearing from you is that you help women be confident being themselves. You're teaching them how to not fake anything. Because if you're not yourself, then you're gonna continue to get what you don't really want.

Joel: Yeah. Or you're gonna create something that you don't want. Social media and dating apps have brought this to the forefront. Especially on dating apps, you have six photos to present how you perceive yourself. And I make jokes about it. A person's on a boat one time, and then they have a picture of them on a boat. This isn't you. You went on a boat once, and now in one of your six photos you're presenting as if you're on boats all the time. And now it's like, okay, I need to create this persona, this perception, that I'm a guy who is on boats.

And so that dissonance, that inauthenticity, just continues to grow and grow until eventually you've created a relationship, or you're in a relationship, with someone who you actually don't even like that much, or who you don't like being with, because you weren't authentic. You were playing a role, you were playing a part. And so truly, authenticity is going to quickly eliminate what isn't meant for you and attract the things that are. The person that's going to love you is going to love you, not this version of you that you think they want.

Where to Find Joel Monteleone

Lindsay: I love it so much. Okay, before we wrap up, where can people find you?

Joel: You can find me on Instagram at joel_monteleone, J-O-E-L underscore M-O-N-T-E-L-E-O-N-E. I put all of my stuff there. You'll see my podcast, links to Hotter Together, you'll see my events. Just go to Instagram and DM me. You can see all the stuff I offer. I have a five-step process to getting you into a relationship in my link, and there's a quiz to find out what's blocking you from love. So go to Instagram, it all lives there.

Lindsay: I love it. And we'll put the links in the show notes as well. And as the very last question, what are you doing right now that has you feeling good AF? Whatever interpretation of AF you want to use.

Joel: Ooh. Feel good AF. I've been getting more massages. I used to think that massages were really expensive and out of reach, and couldn't be a thing that I did regularly. But there's a place near me that's really great, and I go there more regularly now. Anytime I'm feeling stressed, I just go and turn everything off and get a massage, and it's amazing. Thank you, Lindsay. I appreciate it.

Lindsay: I love it. That's a great way to treat yourself. All right, Joel, thank you so much for being here.